pen This page is reserved for your reactions, mild comment and welcome suggestions to Joop Lindeijer. mail


18-12-2003
Do you know a source for obtaining Haitinck's Mahler No 3 with the Berlin Philharmonic, and Jard van Nes? I have had difficulty obtaining a copy.
Thanks, Peter

Sorry Peter,

More than the Philips number, I can't give you: Philips 432162-2
I even don't now of this release is still available.

Success, Joop


29-11- 2003
Sehr geehrter Herr Lindeijer,
mit großem Vergnügen lese und höre ich seit geraumer Zeit in Ihren "Dutch Divas". Ich besitze drei CDs des Hamburger Archivs für Gesanagskunst mit ausschließlich holländischen Sängern/innen. Auf einer ist eine Aufname aus Mendelssohns Elias "So ihr mich von ganzem Herzen suchet" mit Evert Midema von 1927. Bei Ihnen ist ein Tenor Evert Miedema aufgeführt. Ich nehme an, dass es
sich um den gleichen Sänger handelt. Können Sie dies bestätigen oder gibt es tatsächlich beide?
Herzlichen Dank und mit freundlichen Grüßen
Egon Kaibel

Sehr geehrter Herr Kaibel,

Ich versuche es mall im deutsch zu antworden, lesen und sprächen ist einfacher. Aber mein deutsch ist vielleicht besser als Ihr holländisch!
Vielen Dank für die Komplimenten. Es handelt sich um den gleichen Sänger Evert Miedema, nicht Midema. Ich weiss von die genannte CDs. Der Webmaster hat mir/ mich schon gemailed und ich hab mich die Listen angesehen von holländische Aufnahmen. Auf meiner Website komm ich darauf zurück. Und Evert Miedema wird in die Zukunft ausfühlicher behandelt, mehr Text und Bilder.

freundlichen Grüßen,
Joop Lindeijer


24-11-2003
Hi - you mention that the lowest note written for basses is a B (two lines below the bass clef). This is not the case - in Mahler's eighth symphony, there is a bottom B flat for the second basses, a semitone lower. It's a few minutes from the end of the second movement; at the "Chorus Mysticus" section, "Alles Vergangliche, ist nur ein Gleichnis; das Unzulangliche, hier wird's Ereignis", the bottom basses have low B flats on the words "hier wird's Er".

Chris Hutchings
11 Eskview Grove, Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland EH22 1JW


11-11-2003
I was very interested in the clips on the "High C" page but I felt some was lacking on the low end of things. The clip of Matti Salminen was very impressive, probably the best low D I've heard out of an opera singer, but I'm also a big fan of russian choral works. I have recordings of the contrabasses going to a double low F, the F an octave below Sarastro's F.
The lowest notes, like the F I mentioned may not be of much musical value, but I think you will find this soloist takes a low C with ease. He also ventures to a double low G at the end, but it is hard to hear as another bass is doubling it in the normal octave.

http://www.angelfire.com/ct2/metaltabs/wichniakov.mp3

And here is another from the same performer as above, Yuri Wichniakov of the Orthodox Singers Choir, with a foghorn of a B flat lol.

http://www.angelfire.com/ct2/metaltabs/lowBflat.mp3

Basso profondo soloist of the St. Petersburg Choir, Vladmir Pasuikov, chanting down to a low G#.

http://www.angelfire.com/ct2/metaltabs/low_G1complete.mp3

You will also hear most of the basses going down to a low B before he starts the chant.

Well I hope the clips were of some interest to you. The russian's seem to be on the deeper side of the gene pool as far as voices go :).
later,
Everett Wade


27-09-2003,
Hey I just write to correct some wrong information that seems to have leaked you know? like the G#7 by Mariah Carey is actually G#6...just one and a 2 notes above the F in "Queen of the night aria" (counting F#, G and G#) however she has sang G#7 in two live performances of her song "Emotions" one live @ the MTV video music awards of 1992 and in the tv show Arsenio Hall in 1993. Also Mariah has sang several C's above soprano high C in different songs "Emotions", "Vision of love", "Vanishing", "Bringin' on the heartbreak", "Can't let go", etc...
Here I'm sending you some of her recordings or performances of C's above high C...note the last one is C above soprano high C and then she slips to E an octave above soprano high C all very connected.

I'm also sending her recording of her G#7...if you've ever seen the video online you can see the mic is at least 10 cm's away from her mouth so it's not just a little squeak.


24-09-2003
Dear Joop

I love your web-site!! :-) But I'm missing some other Dutch singers: Some Info's about Truus Bording (soprano) and her son Peter Bording (baritone). Her husband and his father was Jan Handerson (on your website too)! And I'm missing Matthijs Coppens .. Ok ok I'm not very objective - I love their voices - , but this is the sense of an opera fanatic!

and ... I don't agree with you when you are writing about Miranda van Kralingen. I've heard her in Berlin ad the Komsche Oper. Gré Brouwenstijn is (was) better!

Best wishes from Berlin (Germany)

Christian

Dear Cristian,

Thanks for your compliments.
About Miranda: I never wrote that she sings better than Gré Brouwenstijn! As I said, I heard Miranda several times live - not in opera - and was impressed by her performances. Unfortunately I was not in the possibility to hear Mirand singing Tosca, so I can't compare the two sopranos in this role. Not comparing in vocal quality in terms as, who is the best, the greatest, but more in interpretation, presentation. But I agree completely your point, Gré Brouwenstijn is one of the greatest Dutch sopranos I ever heard - therefore 4 pages in Dutch as well as in English [ ..... ] Truus Bording is new for me. Matthijs Coppens I only know from some minor roles with the Nederlandse Opera. So not on the list of top priority for me.

kind regards,
Joop Lindeijer


14-09-2003,
Hi, i'm a great fan of Mariah Carey, i can totally confirm the fact that she DOESN' T USE computer effects for her voice, she has a nearly five octave REAL range, during the Star Spangled Banner she reached a B6, her highest note remains the famous G7 in Emotions sung live at MTV Video Music Awards in 1992. The register she uses is called whistle register and with it she can reach stratospheric high notes. The attached file is from a LIVE interview she did some time ago in which she shows a little bit of her amazing range. Please correct the wrong information on your site, she still has the record for the highest note produced by a human being.
thanks
Daniele Odasso


02-09-2003,
Thank you so much for the informational article on Christina Deutekom. I remember her most fondly in "Lucia di Lammermoor" at the Lyric Opera of Chicago in 1970 and "Norma" at the Connecticut Opera Association in 1978. I just have been listening to her recording of "I Lombardi" on Philips, and once again am astounded at her vocal beauty and technical prowess. I wondered what she was doing now. I wish that Philips would release on CD those two aria albums. I can truly say, she has one of the most beautiful voices I've ever heard.
Thank you once more. Robert Bandelier (USA)


28-08-2003,
Joop,
I received this message today. Look who sent it! Ineke Schelland! My tape had become so bad that I could not iron the wrinkles out and I thought it to be hopeless. I kept trying to find information to share with you about the recording. I cannot believe this. I will get you a copy of this recording. Thanks for all your help. I will keep in touch.
Regards,
Dennis Propson

05-01-2003,
Hello,
I found your website in an attempt to gain information about three singers, who I believe are Dutch, the Schelland sisters, Ineke, Ria, and Ciska. Do you know of them? They perform on the most wonderful recording of Mozart's Requiem that I have owned for sometime. I'm hoping to locate the recording on CD, for my tape will not last forever.
Thank you for any help you can give me.

Dennis Propson, Michigan, USA.


13-08-2003,
Hallo Joop,
Enjoyed reading very much about the high-note sopranos. My favorite has always been Mado Robin. In addition to her high register, her voice also had an unusual "color", which made it instantly recognizable. I do not think Mariah Carey deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as these other fine coloraturas. In fact, it is being reported that Mariah's high notes were artificially produced by a vocal processor.

Tnx,
Johanus


06-08-2003,
I am very happy that a reference list of Aafje Heynis performances does exist. However , let me mention that it is , by far , quite partial:
What about Schubert , D 920 Standschen , accompanied by Felix de Nobel ?
About Songs by Caplet and other french songs?
About Sea Slumber Song by Elgar ?
And others that Philips would be right to put on MP3 or CD!

Sincerely
Fracema


31-07-2003,
I visited your wonderful website, www.dutchdivas.net today. I read your excerpt on Mariah Carey in the section of the website titled High C's. I have read on www.divalegacy.com that Mariah Carey, in the song "All in your mind" on her début album, hits an F above high F in a very high passage of staccati near the song's end. Is this true?


28-07-2003,
Hi, your site is really clear and the way you explain the concept of the vocal range is great. I loved the fact that you mentioned Mariah, since so many people take her voice for granted. I´ve read once in a fan's site that she had a 7-octave vocal range, but all the other homepages and critics/reviewers say she has a 5-octave range. I thought it was possible since she hits lower notes then the sopranos, wich
makes her range larger... Maybe it's only about different notations that may confuse people. Anyway, the site is really good. Thanks.
Caio


25-07-2003,
Hey Joop!
Incredible site, thanks! Hearing such acuto sfogatos sopranos is a pleasure for me but that note in the Mariah clip you puted in this site is (in my opinion) a C as Erna Sack ones, but Mariah really reached a G in alt altissimo,( or the last G in the piano, or double G, or G above high G etc)in a
live performance of her song Emotions in the MTV Music Awards in 1991...isnt so hard to find...and in the studio she recorded an F one octave above of that of the Queen of the Night in her music All in your Mind wich is in her first cd and is very easy to find(put it into your site)
I heard that , believe me!!!
Rgds
RAFAEL(from Brasil)


15-06-2003,
What a happy thing to find your website. I am Cornelie Meysenheim's grandaughter. I live in Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA. Everything you have said about my grandmother is factual. And, yes, William III did provide the means for her study with Pauline Viardot-Garcia on Paris. Apparently there was a bit of a misunderstanding between my grandmother and William III of which I have proof. I would very much like to know where the photos of my grandmother's portrait as well as the other photos came from. I know for a fact that they are authentic but would like to keep that to myself for now. Perhaps I might have some information that would interest you regarding my grandmother. I would be very happy to hear from you.
Sincerely,

Cornelie A. Schubel


28-06-2003,
If the recording of Mariah Carey is in correct pitch - and it sounds correct to me - then she does not sing a G at all! She sings a b''' (or h''' in german/scandinavian) and the pitch is about 1980 hz - a tritonus above Mozart's f''', so it is high, but still well "within the piano". And if 16 hz is C0, then it is a B7.
Singers who reach extremely low notes most often cheat by using a special technique known as "multiphonics" or "stroh-bass", which makes the voice jump down an octave. But it is difficult, and it doesn't sound well, so it is easy to hear when a singer does this. (it can sometimes work a good effect in a choir, though). Yma Sumac certainly used this trick! But since even using this technique nobody can go lower than their lowest natural note plus an octave, I find it highly unlikely that any woman could possibly go as low as the piano! The american avant-garde singer Joan la Barbara can make her voice jump down an octave plus a fifth, but that is extremely difficult and not something that can be used for any practical purposes. Personally I can only sometimes do it and this way touch the lowest A on a normal piano.
The lowest note I have ever heard anyone sing without cheating was my father who one morning hit a E1 - the deepest note of a doublebass (about 41 hz), and with a pleasant sound too! But the ability to hit an A1 (55 hz) or even a G1 (48 hz) is not uncommon for older bass singers even though the sound is usually not powerful enough for soloist purposes. A bass who can sing a D well enough to perform as Osmin, will normally have lower notes that he only sings in his bathroom.
Lau Bjerno, Danmark


23-06-2003,
Hello Joop,
Thanks for the nice article and sound clip of Magda Olivero. I have bookmarked your sight and will get into the Dutch singers as soon as possible. If Dutch singers are as good as Dutch orchestral players I should be in for quite a treat!
John Swadley, Mexico


15-06-2003
Dear Joop!

I read your website DUTCH DIVAS with great enthusiasm and interest! It must have taken weeks of work to prepare something in such loving detail! Congratulations! I wanted to add something to the info you already have there...
... you write on the page "The High C" about the extreme ranges of human voices. Everything you write is excellent, but you have slightly underestimated the cruelty with which certain composers have treated the BASS voice! :-)
I can think of at least three written (I mean written by the composer, not an optional note, cadenza etc) bottom D's for the bass voice. Two are both by Monteverdi. The first is at the death of Seneca in L'Incoronazione di Poppea. The second - well, I forget where it is, but it's in the fragmentary opera Il Ritorno di Ulisse in Patria. The third example - and maybe there are others? - is Mozart. In Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail, Osmin's final aria "Ha! So will ich triumphieren!" has written bottom D's, which the singer is obliged to hold for long notes! Kurt Moll recorded the whole opera and he hits his D very well - although in the Recording Studio, which makes life a little easier! However, I have heard Richard Van Allen and Stafford Dean both sing it live :-))
By the way, in the Russian Kantechion (Mass of the Dead) setting by Rachmaninov, the composer writes an optional bottom B. I've heard it sung by extraordinary Russian basses in choirs here.
Best Regards from Moscow
Neil McGowan


7-06-2003
Mr. Lindeijer;

Having recently discovered your website while looking for information on the highest vocal ranges in music history, I felt the necessity to express the gratification I had, in particular from 'The high C' section. It was overwhelming to be able to listen to extracts from Erna Sack's and Mado Robin's performances in addition to the introductory descriptions and notes you have supplied. But the point I would like to stress is the possible vocal range of human beings in reference to an article I recently have read about Mariah Carey and the Guinness Book of World Records. The article reports;

In the latest edition of The Guinness Book of World Records, set for a March 2003 release date, pop-diva MARIAH CAREY scores still another title. According to Guinness officials, the siren's ethereal pipes hold the record for having hit the highest note in the history of recorded music. In a live rendition of "The Star-Spangled Banner" last year, Mariah hit a G7#-note, outdoing even the piano. Technically, the exertion of G7#-notes is "dolphin speak," since, in theory, these are the only mammals physiologically equipped with the proper lung-structure to produce G7#-notes. So powerful are G7#-notes that these are capable of countering water and electric currents, and have even been known to outdistance space and range. In the world, Carey is the only other living creature to have ever generated a G7#-note. Clinically, Mariah's voice is termed a medical wonder. But the "altisisima" Carey is no stranger to the Guinness Book, as the songbird is titleholder to dozen other titles. Correlating to Carey’s latest record, in a back edition of the Guinness Book, Carey is credited with possessing a 7-octave range, meaning she is able to go from an A2 (eight full-scaled keys below the lowest possible note on a piano) to a G7#-note without deviating from perfect pitch and all in the time-span of one breath. Behind vocal wonder Carey, who still goes un-championed, are Yma Sumac, ringing in at 5 octaves, and the late Minnie Riperton, with 4.5 octaves.

Source: BBC News.

Being a total amateur on the issue and commenting in the light of the information I received from your website, the article - in particular for claiming the exertion of a G7 note - appears to be in fallacy. Because in my humble opinion no human being may be capable of hearing a G7 note, (letting aside the exertion of it) if what Erna Sack hits in Frühlingsstimmen Walzer is a c4. I would be grateful to receive your comments on the issue.

PS: I have a copy of Miss Carey's mentioned live retention of The Star Spangled Banner and I must confess she exactly hits some astonishing notes yet it sorrowfully is impossible for me to compare notes accurately via hearing for I am uneducated. Still I doubt that the note Miss Carey hits singing the word 'free' through the end of her performance might be higher than the high c.

Best Regards,
A. Eren Beyazyýldýrým
Istanbul, Turkey


03-06-2003
Dear Joop Lindeijer,

Thank you for your message. I enjoy your site very much and have a keen interest in historical vocal methods. I have been attempting to read Zanten's Bel Canto des Wortes in German, not my strong point either! So, I completely understand your struggle to translate. I hope to prepare an English translation of this important book for voice teachers. I am the Editor of the Newsletter for the New York Singing Teachers Association (NYSTA), a 100 year old organization for voice teachers her in New York City.
Best wishes with your work. And Bravo for such a stimulating website!

All best wishes,
Daniel Shigo


14-05-2003
I hope to be able to read the full translation (into English) regarding Van
Zanten! I am sorry that there isn't more. A wonderful site, none-the-less!

Many thanks,
Daniel

Patience please Daniel, most parts written in Dutch, will be translated in English. But English is not my strongest point, I'm translating with the dictionary within reach.

best regards, Joop Lindeijer


21-04-2003
Hi!

Very good site you have! Very much information on Dutch singers-hard to find elsewhere. But couple corrections about those high(and low) notes, if you please...
Callas's highest recorded note is indeed the high E-no F's have been found (sadly). But as for the low end,apart from Amelia's low a, there is g sharp in "Una voce poco fa" (Rossini/Barbiere), g natural in "Amore dolce impero" (Rossini/Armida) and low f sharp in "Arrigo, ah parli a un core" (Verdi/Vespri) and somewhere in Kundry's part also (Wagner/Parsifal) (?). All these has Callas recorded (in original keys). So: almost 3 octaves...
The highest note in "Popolo di Tessaglia" (twice) sure sounds like high E (not G). But I'll look from the score... Lowest note Mozart wrote is low D for Osmin in Seraglio (Ha, wie will ich triumphieren).Sarastro's lowest is indeed F.
Other curiosities: for soprano high F sharp in "Grossmächtige Prinzessin" (Strauss/Ariande auf Naxos). For mezzos several high B naturals in Verdi (Amneris, Eboli) and actually a high c sharp-but rarely sung-in Azucena's cadenza in act II. For alto low e in II act of Verdi's Falstaff.
High F (!) for tenor in the second stanza of "Credeasi, misera" (Bellini/Puritani). This has been recorded (at least) 3 times:
Pavarotti (falsetto/poorly supprted voix mixte), Gedda (attacked piano, then cresc.) and my personal favourite William Matteuzzi, live recording from Bellini Festival ("the real thing" tm). I have heard that there WAS high G (for Rubini) somewhere in "Favorita", but there is no trace of it in modern vocal score. High a flat (optional) in Tonio's prologue in I pagliacchi. (and high b natural marked falsetto in I act of Falstaff). Low C for Baron Ochs in Rosenkavalier (I act, his exit). Also for same singer, high g sharp later in act II (but ossia for octave down).
And in modern operas, even more...

Yours,
Kari Vehmanen
Bassoon, harp, note copyist


21-04-2003
Hello!
Compliments for the beautiful site! I would like to suggest a correction in the text of “The high C”. The lowest note ever written for a male voice is not Sarastro’s F in “Zauberflöte”. The lowest vocal note in the classical repertoire is in Osmin’s Aria in “Die Entführung aus dem Serail” still by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. It calls for a low D (73.4 Hz). (source: “Guinness World Records 2000, Millennium Edition”). I have another correction. Well, is not a true correction. I am talking about the sound file (wma file) of Mozart’s “Popoli di Tessaglia!” KV316, sung by Annemarie Kremer (Bayreuth, June 2002) The difficult Aria, calls for a stratospheric G3, but the singer Annemarie Kremer reaches “only” a E3 and than comes back (D3 C3). So first as second time.

In my opinion, it would be better if you will add a sound clip containing the original G3. After all, that was the real purpose of Mozart’s difficulties Concert Aria, wasn’t? I know only about 3 records of this piece: Edita Gruberova, Rita Streich and Natalie Dessay. Of course, they are only few women able to sing that G3 …

Thank you very much!
Best regards, N.P.


31-03-2003
Hello
I have found my grandfather on this site - Richard van Helvoirt Pel (1873-1950). Sadly he died well before I was born (in NZ). My mother Olga was his daughter and her only brother, Richard van Helvoirt Pel (Jnr) was also of "fame" in Holland during his career as a "Make Up Artist" for TV etc. I study classical singing here in NZ myself. Can you advise me whether my grandfather has mention on any other Opera sites. I still have his recordings (78 size records) and some of his concert programmes. He retired to Nice in the South of France after completing his career. I was told that he had performed at La Scala and also in Germany?

Many thanks
Karen Boyne


26-03-2003
Hello. I very much admired your excellent website of Dutch Divas. I found it while searching for information about Johannes Messchaert. I wonder if you can help me trace any recordings that may exist of Messchaert for a research project I'm doing with my students at King's College on Lieder singing. If you know any of the original catalogue numbers and the location of surviving copies that would be wonderful.

Thank you so much, and sorry to bother you,
Best wishes,
Dan Leech-Wilkinson

Dear Mr. Leech-Wilinson,

Unfortunately I can't help you. Messchaert never made any recordings. The reason was that he wasn't satisfied with the quality of the recording technics those days. He obviously made some try outs but in his opinion the
results doesn't show full advantage to his voice.

best regards,
Joop Lindeijer


16-03-2003
Dear Mr. Lindeijer,

What a fantastic website you built. I especially enjoyed reading the articles about Michel Gobets. I have only one comment about the following quote from your site:
"He went into hiding, however was arrested and died in 1943 in the German concentration camp Sobibor. "
I don't know anyone who died in Sobibor. I believe everyone was killed. I recommend you change the verb.

Kind regards,
Barry Mehler
Musical Director
Amsterdams Synagogaal Koor


12-03-2003
Dear Mr. Lindeijer,
I am researching the internet for information on Dutch oboist, Haakon Stotijn in particular, and I discovered your interesting website on Dutch singers. I saw a reference to a concert or recording of Haakon Stotijn with either theConcertgebouw orchestra or the Vienna Philharmonic. Would it be possible for you to share some of your information with me? I am doing the research on Haakon Stotijn for an article for the journal of the Double Reed Society here in America. I would appreciate any information you could send about Stotijn, and any other Dutch oboist for that matter. Of all styles in the world I believe the Dutch style the most beautiful and expressive.
Sincerely, Lee Barnes


17-02-2003
Your website is wonderful and has alerted me to a great many recordings by van Beinum and others, many of which I have ordered through Dutch websites. Without your website, I, living in America, would be totally unaware of these recordings, many of which as you know, are only released in the Netherlands by Philips. You will be interested to know, you may be aware of this already, that Decca will release a box of van Beinum recordings in March 2003. I believe it is a 5-CD set.

Keep up the great work!
Sincerely,
Robert Yoerg
Buffalo, New York


12-02-2003
Greetings!

I am enjoying very much your site "Dutch Divas" and have been collecting historical recordings for many years. I am a great fan of the many Dutch singers and have just made the discovery that a tenor in my collection, Julius Peters, was actually Jules Moes. I might mention that he also recorded acoustically for the "Favorite" label...I have in my possession a 12" Favorite "sample" record # 2-15038 Lohengrin "Graals-erzahlung" coupled with 2-15039 Zauberflote "Bildnisarie." On the label, he is listed as "Julius Peters, tenor am Deutschen Landestheater, Prag."
Thank you again for your wonderful site! I will return often.

Best wishes,

Nathan Davis


24-01-2003,
Dear Mr Lindeijer:

Many thanks for your informative reply about the programs you use for your web site. I shall be considering all of your suggestions carefully. And, I want to tell you, that I'll be a continuing devotee of your site.
May I ask you, Can you give me the current address of Aafje Heynis? As unlikely as it may seem, I am new to her singing. I recently purchased a CD on Philips of her performances of two Bach cantatas and Seven Sacred Songs. I should like to tell her how much her singing has meant to me (in faraway New York, decades after it was recorded). The number of times in my life I've regretted that I did not communicate with someone while they were living -- and have regretted not having done so for years afterward -- is quite large!
Keep up your Good Work!

I remain, Cordially yours,
André M. Smith
Formerly Bass Trombonist, The Metropolitan Opera of New York


19-01-2003,
Dear Mr Lindeijer:

A shared interest in the musical heritage of The Netherlands has brought me to your web page. I am interested to develop a web site devoted to the history of the brass instruments. Your site is well-designed and appears to be capable of infinite expansion as needs to do so develop. Can you tell me what software programs you use? Any word on this from you will be greatly appreciated.

I am
Cordially yours,

André M. Smith


05-01-2003,
Hello,

I found your website in an attempt to gain information about three singers, who I believe are Dutch, the Schelland sisters, Ineke, Ria, and Ciska. Do you know of them? They perform on the most wonderful recording of Mozart's Requiem that I have owned for sometime. I'm hoping to locate the recording on CD, for my tape will not last forever.
Thank you for any help you can give me.

Dennis Propson, Michigan, USA.


 

(p) 2003 Dutch Divas